Adventures in Brazilian bureaucracy

Dear Mr. Kugel,

I hear you, I feel your pain.

Like many other Brazilians that every day suffer from our ancient Portuguese heritage, this all came from Portugal and we kept it over the centuries.

Do you know we even had a Minister for Reducing Red Tape in the past? Unfortunately after his term ended the bureaucrats managed to destroy a lot of his work.

Do you know the new Brazilian passport like the US one has no longer any mention of the name of our parents, so no more "filiação" as you very well mentioned.

Can you imagine what will hapen from now on when a family is traveling abroad with their kids to Disney for example, if they have the new Passports, they will also have to bring along with the passport either ID Cards (we call them Registro Geral or Cédula de Identidade) or birth certificates.

If you come to the airport just with the passport the children will not be allowed to board.

Yes, we could teach one or two things to the FED about banking regulation and banking system efficiency, but most certainly can learn a lot on how to simplify and take away the red tape from the US.

I hope the caipirinhas, the food, the sun, the beaches, the mountains, the natural beauties (women included and not being a sexiest) of Brazil will be enough to compensate for all the suffering you will have to endure to live with Brazilian red tape.

There is an old joke about when God created the world, Brazil was the place with no earthquakes, no hurricanes, no natural disasters, no deserts, no snown, lots of natural resources, abundant water, etc..

So Gabriel turn to God and ask, , why if God has made all the other places in the world with natural disasters, fewer natural resources, deserts, extreme cold or extreme heat, why he has made Brazil a paradise.

So God respond, wait to see the people I'll place there... (and how they will be directed by bureaucracy, this is my complement)

We have one the highest amounts of confusing taxes in the world, the highest amount of days to report on all those taxes, one of the most complex and confusing legal systems.

Although we live in Paradise we have to report to Hell everyday when we walk into our jobs.

Still I hope you enjoy my country.

Luiz Brandão

Hi.

I just don't understand what are you foreings doing in Brazil?

Do you reckon that you are doing us a favor coming to Brazil?

If you are not happy the way that things works down here, just go back to your country mate & don't tell me that there loads of illegal Brazilian immigrants in America.

If they are illegal start deporting them or [].

We don't need you here!!!!. Grab your stuff & go back home!!!

The americans and their notorious arrogance... you guys don't learn do you? Your banking system is so efficient isn't it? Well, that's not what I've been hearing on the news I'm afraid. And for you to talk about bureaucracy... you've got to be kidding, let's make an article about the 70-plus steps for someone to get a visa to the US. Everybody knows it is (or was at least) easy to get a bank account and a loan and a mortgage and anything else credit-related in the US, and that's part of the reason why some of your insurance and other finacial companies went bust you GENIUS Mr Seth. Loads of people found no bureaucracy at all when getting a nice mortgage and then soon realized they didn't have any money to pay for it, so they lost their homes and the banks went bust. And the american dream is just that, a dream. And I just laugh at Mr Seth.

I feel for you. That is why it is worth the trouble to relocate professionally to brazil.

FWIW, here is the process if you want to do it efficiently.

day 1: go to cartorio, make notarized copy of passport (all pages), boarding
pass, visa application, page of national newspaper acknowledging your visa

day 2: make pictures (3x4 cm, frontal, white background) register with federal police, get protocol for RNE.

day 6: get SINCRE from federal police; this contains the RNE number. Go to
receita federal, apply for CPF

day 7: register signature at cartorio, probably requires the RNE.

day 8: go to a bank with wealthy friend that already has an account. Register as living at his place, and open bank account.

after you move and rent an appartment, don't forget to register the new address within 30 days with the federal police.

Good luck!

You'll have more stories when you extend the visa, because that has to happen with the ministry of law rather than the ministry of work.

Whenever you go to the cartorio, FP, RF take someone over 60 with you, as they will be able to jump the queues.

Finally, things are beaurocratic and slow, but impersonal and therefore predictable. This is on the contrary to the US department of immigration, for example.

Mr [ ] Kugel

You're very clever aren't you?

He is so intelligent that he scanned his own documents and post them on the internet. Have you ever heard about identity fraud mate?

You should be very carefull with that. If I were you I'd remove them from the internet.

CLEVER, CLEVER, CLEVER GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!

I enjoyed reading this article and the many aspects portrayed, both intended and unintended. From my perspective, Mr Kugel is suffering from something normal and natural -- culture shock. It happens to most everyone who moves to, visits, or lives in another country / culture. Few are exempt from its effects. For Americans at least, it often manifests itself in frustration and anger.

It seems like this must be his first foreign assignment. He is pretty "green behind the ears" as Americans sometimes say. He does show an arrogance (though we can give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this is not intentional). This is demonstrated by his expectation that--even after living in Brazil for some time--domestic banks will happily accept his foreign currency for a deposit. Such a thing in his home country would rarely--if ever--happen.

Suffice to say his banking adventures (along with many, many other everyday adventures of living as an expat) will serve as valuable learning experiences. If / when he looks back on this, he will hopefully be able to see it as such. (In the least he can learn that there is no substitute for good planning. And now he has a lot of documents that will be useful for other tasks in the future.) When he moves on to his next foreign assignment, he'll be better prepared for such things. And when he returns home, he'll be able to regale his friends with incredible stories of life in other lands. Many of us have been there before you, Mr. Kugel, and many more will follow. In your special position as a foreign correspondent, it is my wish that you put your best efforts toward bridging the gaps and bringing better understanding between peoples of different countries and cultures. Every little bit helps.

An excess of red tape is deeply rooted in Brazilian culture. In the film Orpheu Negro (Black Orpheus), Orpheus searches for Eurydice after her death by visiting the Missing Persons office. The only person there is the janitor, who pushes reams of paper with a broom. He is a stand in for Cerberus, the dog that guards the gates of hell (the janitor then introduces Orpheus to the dog himself).
Any Brazilian with resources would use a despachante to get this paper work processed. A despachante is a profession unique to Brazil--someone who cuts through red tape. Invest in a despachante next time, Seth--or continue to do it yourself, to have the totally Brasilian experience and enrich your reporting.

Not trying to get on one of those stupid nationalist wars, but as a foreigner, getting a bank account here in the US wasn't really all that easy for me. Brazilian bureaucracy is way worse, but things can get quite messy here at times.

The federal government now requires people to have two forms of picture ID to open a bank account. Well, I have my passport and my Brazilian ID card. However, they didn't accept it because it was all written in Portuguese. Then I tried to get a state ID (PA, at the time). That was also a problem because they only issued state ID to residents. I had to get a drivers' license. Yes, I had to prove I could drive to open a bank account.

From what I know, they've changed some laws and a friend of mine managed to open his account by showing the passport and the visa stamp...

Loved the article. I lived nearly three years in Brazil and left partly because it took so long for my permanent visa to get approved. Without it (and having only the crummy protocol) I was not able to sign contracts, get a work permit or open a bank account. We did absolutely everything in my wife's name (she's Brazilian). We gave up and started the process to get my wife's Green Card. Also a painful process, but MUCH EASIER than anything we experience with the Brazilian government. Oddly enough, my permanent visa was finally approved two months before we moved to the States.

My wife arrived in the U.S. with every legal right I was denied in Brazil.

This article is hilarious! It reminds me of a similar experience when I was student in Rio in 1979. The Bank employee told me I couldn't open an account because I didn't have a CEP number. So what did I do? I begged. And after about 20 minutes of begging I succeeded in getting a checking account.

SAD But TRUE. Spent two years living in Rio 2007-2009. Still the same process..

That is a great article by Mr. Seth Kugel. I am dual Brazilian/American, lived thirty years in Brazil and about twenty two in the US. My wife and one of our six kids are American. The other five kids are dual too. We moved back to Brazil in the early eighties. My wife had lived in Brazil before but her Foreigners ID card had expired so we applied for a permanent visa through the Brazilian Consulate in Houston. After months and months of submitting reams of papers and documents to the Consulate and even having someone from at the Itamaraty supposedly pushing her files through, we still didn’t have visas for her and our son Mike. About five days after submitting still another stack of documents to the Consulate in Houston, we get a call from the Consulate. They need Thorax X-Rays for both applicants, my wife and our five year old son. Utterly frustrated, I finally and devised plan. We get the X-Rays and when the day comes to make the two hour trip to the Consulate in Houston, I put all six kids and my wife in the car and drive to Houston. The youngest kid was just a few months old. We get there I park and before getting out I instruct the kids: “Listen, children this is the only time I don’t particularly care if you are not minding your manners.” To my wife I say “Honey, I’ll wait in the car”. She takes the elevator up to the Consulate floor with all six children who are all, except for the baby, having a blast. They arrive at the Consulate and are directed to a sumptuous conference room. A very diligent lady walks in holding a thick file. She politely but reservedly acknowledges the slew of children who at this point are climbing on the chairs and talking to each other as if they were at a park. The lady takes her seat at the long table, opens the file and proceeds to explain to my wife that the case is almost concluded but they just needed to have a few more documents including the X-Rays. Just then, one of our daughters needs to go the bathroom. The lady sympathetically informs my wife it will just take a few moments to get the key to the bathroom. She closes the file and holding it carefully in her hands walks back towards the adjoining room where she had come from. After a few moments she returns with the key. Thanking her, my wife hands over the baby to our oldest daughter, then she takes the other daughter by her hand and walks out towards the bathroom. The rest of the kids stay in the conference room with the lady. After a few moments my wife and our daughter return. My wife hands the key back to the lady. The lady walks back to the adjoining room to return the key. Then she comes back into the conference room holding once again the thick file in her hands. She sits down and proceeds to continue the explanation where she had left off. She barely gets started when our son expresses his need to go to the bathroom. The entire routine repeats itself step by step. Close file, walk to adjoining room to get key, return with key without file, wife takes son to bathroom, few moments later returns, return key to lady, lady takes key back to the other room, returns with file, sits, opens file, picks up from where she left. The baby is crying by now and needs a bottle. The lady abbreviates the explanation and reassures my wife that her visa will be issued as soon as “Brasilia” approves it. She is now ready for my wife to leave. My wife leaves, the kids, except for the baby, are still having a great time.
We return home and go about our business. One week later we receive a call from the Consulate, the visas have been issued and are ready to be picked up.

Whether the plan had any effect in encouraging the Consulate to expedite the visas or not I have no idea. Nevertheless, it was rather coincidental that they were issued so soon after the mother and children episode.
I lived the bureaucracy Mr. Kugel describes, many times over while living in Brazil. Not one bit is exaggerated. I guess it is not surprising that Brazil takes as many immigrants in one year as the US takes in one week.

living in rio at the moment since late january. started to try and get a bank account then. my bank account should be up and running within a week or 2 (SHOULD BE...). all in all it 'only' took 3 months, 4 visits to the bank, talking to 4 different clerks there. and ofcourse getting the cpf, a certified copy of my passport and some proof of my parents name and some proof of my address other than just a rental contract signed by a landlord at a cartorio...

the other day i bought a simple lightbulb in an ordinary shop. even there i had to go to 3 different desks: 1. ask a lady for the lightbulb. she handed me an order slip, which i had to pay first. 2. paying. handing in the paper i had just received; in return i got a receipt and a coupon. 3. hand in the coupon at a desk (right next to the cashier) and get the lightbulb.
such a simple transaction should take no more than 3 minutes. well, it took me 15 minutes.

really, i would say there is room for improvement...

I feel the pain. Sat in the Federal Police office for more hours than I'd like to remember until I was aggressively fingerprinted and sent home...

In case 70-plus steps weren't enough, some more bureaucratic how-tos listed here: http://lostgringa.ableminds.com/?cat=5