Record number of guns in Mexico traced to the US

Share on Facebook StumbleUpon Add to Reddit Print Version Email Article

The number of confiscated weapons that originated in the US is on the rise.

By Todd Bensman — GlobalPost

Published: April 24, 2009 10:07 ET

Page 2 of 2

In the absence of one credible total seizure number, a largely speculative fight is underway over the origins of those weapons that aren't traced back to their origin.

Top Mexican and U.S. politicians assert that the high percentage of the traced guns that lead to U.S. sources — 90 percent of all those submitted for traces — indicate that a sizeable majority of those guns that aren't traced also comes from U.S. retailers, with a small smattering of foreign military weapons in the mix.

But gun rights advocates argue the number of guns that actually gets traced is but a small fraction of the total number of guns confiscated in Mexico. As a result, they argue that many of the untraced weapons must come from somewhere other than the U.S.

"They're getting their firearms and weapons from another place, but it certainly is not the U.S.," said National Rifle Association spokeswoman Vickie Cieplak. “The anti-gun community is trying to mislead people and encourage lawmakers to approve an assault weapons ban."

One of the reasons that so little is known about the untraced guns is that the Mexican military — which demands custody over all captured illegal weapons — has, for reasons of sovereignty, largely refused the ATF access to gun vaults.

Agency officials with knowledge of the issue say Mexican military officers have not received sufficent training to know how to identify the correct four or five markings required for a successful trace — or they simply don't feel like doing the work.

Also, these ATF officials say, Mexican military officials are believed to be pilfering some of the seized caches, either to sell back into the black market for illicit profit or to keep for themselves.

The consequence, they say, is that many more guns are sitting in Mexican vaults that, if traced, would lead to U.S. sources.

ATF officials including J. Dewey Webb concede the 90 percent figure only represents weapons that were traced, which are a small fraction of the total seized. But based on his 33 years of experience, ATF agent visits to Mexican gun vaults and other information, Webb believes that a majority of the untraced guns are indeed from the U.S.

To illustrate his point, Webb recounted a recent anecdote: He recently attended a firearms trafficking conference in Mexico alongside Homeland Security Department Secretary Janet Napolitano. Mexican military authorities were displaying some 30 seized cartel guns, from which Webb quietly had U.S. law enforcement officials collect serial numbers for tracing. It turned out that none of the weapons had been submitted for tracing, and that all led to U.S. sources.

He said he is certain similar experiments would yield the same outcome all over Mexico, if the ATF had access.

"You're not going to have containers of guns coming from a lot of other countries," Webb said. "Right now, the U.S. is the easiest place and cheapest place for them to buy their guns, and because that's the case, we're their number one source."

More on Mexico's drug wars:

Investigation: US retailers fuel Mexico's drug wars

Analysis: Mexico a failing state?

The cross-border bullet trade

A tale of two Laredos

Comments:

5 Comments.

Posted by malcolm beith on April 24, 2009 13:52 ET

calculating numbers on gun flow is complex, and the figures are harder to believe when the first line in a story like this one cites a number that is wrong. About 6,300 people died in mexico from drug violence in 2008, according to the authorities. most media estimates put the number at about the same. Where does more than 7,000 come from? and are the firearms numbers below in the story accurate?

Posted by malcolm beith on April 24, 2009 13:53 ET

Posted by spooky926 on April 24, 2009 19:19 ET

Malcolm, you're right...the 7,000 figure includes drug related deaths from January 2008 to the present: "The bloody drug war, which has caused 7,000 deaths in 16 months..." quoted from the New York Times. I can also tell you that the firearm numbers from the ATF are accurate. You'll never get the same numbers from two different Mexican agencies, especially between the locals and the feds, and sometimes you'll get different numbers from the same agency if you ask on two separate days.

Posted by spooky926 on April 24, 2009 15:32 ET

Todd, this is really nice work...I'm a fan of your research and writing. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the sensationalist pieces that fuel the controversy over the seizure and trace stats. I have to deal with that headache on a daily basis in my non-blogging job, and I'm so happy to see a journalist explaining the problem in layman's terms without politicizing it. Thanks for the insight!

Posted by Jarhead1982 on April 27, 2009 05:58 ET

LOL, Yep, it is the same number from the ATF, so now comes the acid test for your data Todd. Especially as your picture depicts all military grade full auto weapons which of course are so regulated, expensive, it limits their sale on the open market in the US. You are actually going to have people believe that the ATF doesn’t keep a tight rein on all full auto weapons sold to civilians in the US, LOL, yeah right! What is it with you journalists that you wish to talk and comment about a subject (semi-auto) rifles, yet you cant even post a picture of REAL evidence (oh yeah, got to have evidence to post it, don’t you?), pathetic that so many dumbed down Americans actually believe what you have to say, isn’t it?

How many of those traced weapons were semi-auto civilian legal weapons which the anti gun crowd calls assault weapons, and how many were actually military grade combat rifles and weapons?

You see that is what all the hoopla is about, using gross numbers that while they may be true, the details will tell the real truth. The real truth that over 11,600 of those weapons would be traced back to our government selling them "real assault weapons" to the Mexican government, and then those same weapons were illegally sold or stolen. How then is that the average law abiding gun owners fault, it isn’t is it?

As you did not post that level of detail, one of two things must be true; 1) you do not want the public to know that the government is the source for over 90% of those weapons ending up in the cartel 2) You don’t have the evidence/data otherwise you would have posted it to further your point on more gun control. Which one is it Todd, or do you have the guts to admit it?

Todd, have you ever bought a weapon on the black market? How much is an already full auto, not needing a kit to change to full auto AK 47 going for, try $300, all day long out of Central America. How much is a semi-auto evil looking rifle which would require a conversion kit in the US? Prices for the weapons purchased in the US before the run on weapons were 2 to 3 times more, now 5 to 7 times more. If you bought a class 3 weapon in the US, the cost jumps to 10 to 15 times the price, this is true, so please explain why the cartels would be buying such weapons, at such costs versus the easily available cheaper full auto weapons on the black market? My sources are more reliable than the ATF which is a politically motivated entity who has no concern for the US citizens rights. My sources are ex military, many who served in the undeclared war in Central America in the 1970's to 1980’s!

Having worked in Mexico, and having had to pay lots of "grease" to get things accomplished in the business world, the ever prevalent "graft" is no different in any kind of business in Mexico, politics, gangs, you name it, corruption is rampant in Mexico. Just as fear mongering and half truths of propaganda are rampant in our liberal media. Your article smacks of government issued propaganda Todd and no, your article is not well researched or well written. Otherwise the details I asked for would have been presented, and you call yourself a professional, yeah right!

Recent on Mexico :

Latest

Journalist murders in Mexico hit new record

Ioan Grillo - Mexico - November 14, 2009 09:46 ET

Censorship increases as killings become routine. "I don’t want to die young," says one reporter.

Mural makeover

John Enders - Mexico - November 12, 2009 16:50 ET

Mexico is restoring the murals of Diego Rivera — admirer of Lenin, friend of Trotsky and lover of Frida Kahlo.

On Location: Mexico City — Gangster chic

Ioan Grillo - Mexico - November 9, 2009 09:22 ET

Vigilante justice spreads across Mexico

Ioan Grillo - Mexico - October 28, 2009 05:39 ET

More Mexicans turn to the lynch mob as crime spirals out of control.

“Legalize it” lobby gains strength across Americas

Ioan Grillo - Mexico - October 20, 2009 05:26 ET

Mexico and other Latin American countries are moving toward drug decriminalization — and Washington isn't complaining.

Mexico’s "business class" refugees

Todd Bensman - Mexico - October 18, 2009 17:14 ET

Violence is pushing Mexican elites to buy their way to safety using a special class of U.S. visas available only to the rich.

Full Frame: Worshipping Saint Death

Brian L Frank - Full Frame - October 15, 2009 14:45 ET

A photographer visits Mexico's most notorious barrios, where death is the only truth in life.

Full Frame: Born behind bars

Caroline Bennett - Full Frame - October 15, 2009 14:44 ET

A photographic journey inside a prison where babies live with their incarcerated mothers.

A World of Trouble: Is the nightmare over?

Thomas Mucha - Commerce - October 14, 2009 13:35 ET

With signs of economic recovery finally emerging, here's where things stand in 20 countries around the world.

Stanford scam bilked Jews out of millions

Todd Bensman - Commerce - September 24, 2009 13:50 ET

A GlobalPost Passport investigation finds that the $8 billion Stanford Ponzi scheme decimated the savings of Jews in Mexico City and Caracas. Were they explicitly targeted?